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Issues That Needs Attention!

balance gameplay healing combat fixes aiming UI combat damage targetting XP

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#1
JackSmack

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Hi



I would like to summarize what i believe is the most urgent issues Forge currently has. Feel free to comment.

Currrently this game is broke around 70% of the time - AKA not enjoyable - due to various reasons.
Most of this stuff should (imo) be high priority from an end user point of view.


1)
Balancing.

This has been mentioned a ton of times before. I dont care how its done as long as it is done!

However i strongly suggest that with the current version of the "open free / leave" model you got that as long as there is an uneven amount of players in the game that the last player to join the outnumbering team is sitting out till either he gets balanced to the other team (1 from other team leaves resulting in outnumbering team being +2) or till a new player joins so the teams are equal again.

2)
XP system - broke in so many ways.

CTR: if you choose to either defend your relic (which is sorta pointless and shouldnt be) or - even more relevant - you choose to capture enemy team relic you will recieve very little XP even though you are actually winning for your team.
All while the rest of your team will be fighting at the tower doing tons of damage / kills / heals / assisting / etc.

Hunters vs assasins:
Hunters do TONS more Damage per second (because of the multi arrow thing) and on top of that their damage intervals usually lasts much longer for several reasons:
Its easier to heal hunters as they are near shamans most of the time.
Hunters dont have to restealth and run back to shaman to get healed back up when facing 2 much heat.
Hunters are not focused as much as Assasins.
Above resulting in much more damage done by hunters and typically also alot more (different type) of medals earned (and higher ranks).

FewVSFew:
This is almost always never worth the XP considered how much XP you gain in a 6vs6 where both teams have healers etc for long fights, or your on the facerolling team - even though you spend the same amount of time playing.


There are tons of more scenarious, but i dont wanna mention them all just now.


3)
Shaman - so broke in so many ways. first of all its required unless both teams play without a shaman in anything above 3vs3.

AOE heal needs to be changed to a HoT with much lower total heal, or stay the way it is but heal MUUUUUUCH less.
Currently its retarded how much 1 shaman can heal by M1 clicking the lowest target and keeping AOE heal up for like 5-6 seconds.

The gravity thing (jump thing) is just retarded... i dont care what the impact to the gameplay is - it is just retarded.
Have it replaced with a self buff with some cooldown - could be take 50% less damage from next 4 attacks.

The bubble shield - Remove this asap. Im not sure about the mechanics for this ability as i sometimes see it last like 5 seconds, and other times it barely lasts 2 seconds. Mby there is a counter to this im not sure of, but anyway... this spell does not belong in this game.

Self heal (G) - very very situationel as your right now better off using all ur other spells. (read: bubble and AOE heal)
Make it heal ALOT like 30% but give it a 1 minute cooldown.

Teambuff (V) - Remove the additional healing effect from this OR make the buff stay even though you decide to heal a target with (H) - currenlty (H) consumes the buff but gives additional healing.
I also suggest the buff lasts twice as long, but is restricted to 1 or 2 targets. (currently you can keep it up on 3 targets without healing 2 much.)

M1 heal is a PAIN in the ass to use in crowded fights, and because its a "click and keep your aim on the target for 1.5 sec before spell goes off" it can completely fuck you over as you cant recover your mana if this happens for 3-4 attacks.
Make this spell charge up, and on release damage or heal whatever your (if anything) targetting.

The share damage with a friend spell (F i think). Combined with a Warden this is getting retarded. If you wanna share damage and HP make all damage amplified with 20% (or whatever % fits).
Another option is to change this spell into: The shaman protects target allied until cancelled, and all damage to the target is redirected to the shaman.
Both suggestions solves the problem with the ability slowing down combat to a pace where people just cant die.

As it is now the Shaman is actually one of - if not the - most fun class to play even though its broke - so its not a "make shamans fun" rant.

4)
Warden broke

Besides being boring as hell, the class needs to have several abilities reworked.

The spin and fly is stupid... really really silly.

Where as i like the offensive aura, i really really really dislike the defensive aura. The combat pace is pretty good where it is WITHOUT defensive buffs and healing. Def aura combined with shaman... well it has its own headline below.

The immune to all (shieldwall or whatever) is soooo lame.
ATLEAST make him unhealable while in this mode AND DO NOT MAKE PLAYERS GET COOLDOWN IF THEY ATTACK THAT SHIELDWALL!!!!!
Gotta be the worst idea i have ever seen. Its so fucking overpowered and BORING!!!??!?!?!?!?! combined with shaman... well look below @ next topic.

The vengeance thing (charge up stacks to amplify def and off aura). this needs 2 fixes.
Make it visible to the Warden how many stacks he has.
Show how long it lasts (remains).

5)
Shaman + Def Warden combo

This is really sick. And its taking the fun out of this game. The game gets slowed down to a pace where stuff is litterally unkillable atleast in pub games.

Warden shieldwall putting enemy stuff on cooldown because he stands first in line and when the team suffers a certain amount of damage he shieldwalls and the enemy team that AOE's the group will get cooldowns.

Warden ofc with defense aura - zzzzzzzz

Shaman links himself to the warden so he cant be bursted down.

Shaman AOE heals - scales retarded sick with link hp / damage taken.

Shaman shaman bubble.

All this together is just too much. Without shieldwall and Bubble this combo pretty much outlasts all damage - and then for the "oh fuck we got a little burst there" there is 2 giant gamebreakers ready for you.










Ill edit in the last part when im home from work - or perhaps tomorrow.


6)
Match leaving

Change the whole way of how game joining is done, so you cant leave -and if you do you get a 1 hour cooldown before you can join a new game.
Currently there is no reason to stay in a game that you dont win.

7)
targetting

8)
Lock selected target

9)
How to join server

10)
Combat pace

11)
buffs not visible.

Warden vengeance stack.
Shaman buff not visible to the player buffed.
  • JackSmack likes this

#2
Moments

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LOL

#3
Moments

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omg lol

#4
OSIAS

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So I read most of what you had to say, but after so much I cant take it anymore my head hurts. I do not agree with anything you said. You are taking this approach all from a narrow perspective without weight of coordinated teams and what the game really will be like when its done and how the teamwork plays a huge role in play style, strategy and balance. I am not even going to argue with you, you win your right.

#5
Catoriealkalk

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this was spam

#6
Catoriealkalk

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this was spam

#7
Catoriealkalk

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nothing

#8
Zin

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You forgot one of the most important issues. The number of stickies this forum has. Seriously, there are more stickies than actual threads on the first page.

#9
Hasty

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JackSmack talks smack, just like his name. All them noobs are trying to change the game in the way they would like it themselves. Get 100 hours of playtime experience before you complain about any balance issues. Not everything is broken like you say, actually most of the things are fine - There are only few slightly broken mechanics in classes, such as warden charge stunning, but this is going to be changed to a slow in the next patch.

You clearly have some serious l2p issues there, as I said, get some experience before you complain. If you don't like the game as it is now, read the upcoming patch notes. If you still dislike it, the game is not ment for you, you may still play it if you change your mind, or go away, but you just don't tell that everything in the game is broken becouse you don't like it and you think its retarded.

Edit: I played against you today, one of the worst shamans Ive seen.
  • Fury likes this

#10
Rypcore

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Good sweet lord where are all these naivee children coming here with their miniscule input baised on untrue statements. Simply put.. you need to play more and listen to woooT, and play the game more and dont QQ. The games amazing.

#11
Yormaika

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just... wow.

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  • Hagesybages likes this
nerf paper, scissors is fine. Yours Truly, Rock.

Deus Mortis ---------------- Pathfinder Guide

#12
zaylol

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lol..

#13
TunesForToons

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He actually made some pretty valid points..
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#14
TunesForToons

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Anything that I left quoted is what I agree with.

Most of this stuff should be high priority from an end user point of view.


1) Balancing
However i strongly suggest that with the current version of the "open free / leave" model you got that as long as there is an uneven amount of players in the game that the last player to join the outnumbering team is sitting out till either he gets balanced to the other team (1 from other team leaves resulting in outnumbering team being +2) or till a new player joins so the teams are equal again.

2) XP system

CTR: if you choose to either defend your relic (which is sorta pointless and shouldnt be) or - even more relevant - you choose to capture enemy team relic you will recieve very little XP even though you are actually winning for your team.
All while the rest of your team will be fighting at the tower doing tons of damage / kills / heals / assisting / etc.

3) Shaman
First of all its required unless both teams play without a shaman in anything above 3vs3.

Teambuff (V) - Remove the additional healing effect from this OR make the buff stay even though you decide to heal a target with (H) - currenlty (H) consumes the buff but gives additional healing.
I also suggest the buff lasts twice as long, but is restricted to 1 or 2 targets. (currently you can keep it up on 3 targets without healing 2 much.)

M1 heal is a PAIN in the ass to use in crowded fights, and because its a "click and keep your aim on the target for 1.5 sec before spell goes off" it can completely fuck you over as you cant recover your mana if this happens for 3-4 attacks.
Make this spell charge up, and on release damage or heal whatever your (if anything) targetting.

The share damage with a friend spell (F i think). Combined with a Warden this is getting retarded.
Another option is to change this spell into: The shaman protects target allied until cancelled, and all damage to the target is redirected to the shaman.
Both suggestions solves the problem with the ability slowing down combat to a pace where people just cant die.

4) Warden broke

The spin and fly is stupid... really really silly.

Where as i like the offensive aura, i really really really dislike the defensive aura. The combat pace is pretty good where it is WITHOUT defensive buffs and healing. Def aura combined with shaman... well it has its own headline below.

The vengeance thing (charge up stacks to amplify def and off aura). this needs 2 fixes.
Make it visible to the Warden how many stacks he has.
Show how long it lasts (remains).

5) Shaman + Def Warden combo

This is really sick. And its taking the fun out of this game. The game gets slowed down to a pace where stuff is litterally unkillable atleast in pub games.

6) Match leaving

Change the whole way of how game joining is done, so you cant leave -and if you do you get a 1 hour cooldown before you can join a new game.
Currently there is no reason to stay in a game that you dont win.

11) buffs not visible.


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#15
JackSmack

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After recieving the "stfu nuub, l2p plx" i gave my list some thoughts...

I have come to the conclussion that some of my points are not correct - however... disregarding the entire list makes you a retard...

Arguing for stuff like how to join game is the way is suppost to be makes me wanna go to your house and punch you in the face.

I might consider editing my OP.

#16
Finecry

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1)
Balancing.

This has been mentioned a ton of times before. I dont care how its done as long as it is done!

However i strongly suggest that with the current version of the "open free / leave" model you got that as long as there is an uneven amount of players in the game that the last player to join the outnumbering team is sitting out till either he gets balanced to the other team (1 from other team leaves resulting in outnumbering team being +2) or till a new player joins so the teams are equal again.

2)
XP system - broke in so many ways.

CTR: if you choose to either defend your relic (which is sorta pointless and shouldnt be) or - even more relevant - you choose to capture enemy team relic you will recieve very little XP even though you are actually winning for your team.
All while the rest of your team will be fighting at the tower doing tons of damage / kills / heals / assisting / etc.



3).
AOE heal needs to be changed to a HoT with much lower total heal, or stay the way it is but heal MUUUUUUCH less.
Currently its retarded how much 1 shaman can heal by M1 clicking the lowest target and keeping AOE heal up for like 5-6 seconds.


4)
Warden


6)
Match leaving

Change the whole way of how game joining is done, so you cant leave -and if you do you get a 1 hour cooldown before you can join a new game.
Currently there is no reason to stay in a game that you dont win.

7)
targetting


Warden vengeance stack.
Shaman buff not visible to the player buffed.


Ok i only quoted what i think needs clarifying or things that are genuine problems.

1. Balancing
Devs are already on it.

2. Exp system:
Although i agree in some way that the different game modes actually don't reward as much as they should the players for actually doing the objective as others who are just DM 24/7 you have to understand score is not exp, the exp rewards come from the different badges you earn, usually in a full match you see the warden and shaman with the highest score points however they only have 3 badges and other players who's score is significantly lower have like 6 badges + higher tiers than the shamans and wardens, those players are getting way more exp even if their score is lower.

Also if you win a match your the exp you get from badges is doubled so.

On the issue of actually completing the objectives of the game dunno what the Devs have said about this but this should be addressed since for example you're playing king of the hill, there is one badge related to capturing the towers (siegebreaker) however this takes a lot of time to actually pop up while your hole team and possibly the other team are just dm as usual thus they are getting more badges (therefore more exp) and score as well so i do see why it's frustrating.

3. In the next update blessed aura won't heal the shamans as well, and idk if they reduced the healing per second this ability does but they are balancing the class.

4. Learn to play the Warden, read the abilities and think of all the situations they are good for, the tornado one is particularly good for knocking down ppl from the huge bridge for example.

6. I think this is being addressed already.

7. Same being addressed as well

These buffs i agree should be visible.

#17
JackSmack

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Thanks for your constructive feedback julio.

I am perfectly aware about how the XP system works (medals and medal rank / level)

I read some post i cba finding now, where a Dev listed all the medal types (how to achieve), requirements for each rank, and reward for each of the 4 ranks.

Anyway... I still stand by my opinion in OP in that regard.

In a really juicy game i can get up to 12.000 XP in 1 round (only adding medals up) and in other games with few players and fail team i can barely get 2.000 (have tried getting less than 1k several times).

My point is that difference is too big. Getting facerolled 2 games in a row (4 rounds) and afterwards being faceslapped with a total of 4k XP (4 rounds - 2 games) just sucks when it could be 4k+ per round and prefeably ~9.000 PER ROUND.

This will make you wanna play certain modes over others - and no matter what some stupid Jay Wilson Blizz Drone thinks.... this aint good for the game.

#18
JackSmack

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Edit: I played against you today, one of the worst shamans Ive seen.



Its cool dude... So im the worst shaman in forge (im fine with that, it was probaly my first day playing that class as i stay with a class for some time before jumping to next).
Still (being the absolute worst shaman ever in history of all games that has shamans) i believe its very OP currently...

Thx for supporting my point :)

You sir are an idiot.

#19
JackSmack

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And to clarify.... the reason why most of my games is broke is not because of game balancing Issues....

Rather its:
joining same empty server 4 times in a row (omfg how can i not like that... great feature!!!!!)
Keep getting into low populated servers x time in a row (3vs2 or 2vs1) just aint fun...
People leave match (yes that breaks the game....)
XP system in all the above 2 cases is completely broke
Spawn Camping is pretty boring when doing it (your team) - its horrible when facing it.
Playing biiiiiiiig maps 1vs1 - 3vs3 ZZZZZzzzzzzz
Nonstop XvsX+1

#20
Hasty

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3)
Shaman - so broke in so many ways. first of all its required unless both teams play without a shaman in anything above 3vs3. Not really, its very usefull though.

AOE heal needs to be changed to a HoT with much lower total heal, or stay the way it is but heal MUUUUUUCH less.
Currently its retarded how much 1 shaman can heal by M1 clicking the lowest target and keeping AOE heal up for like 5-6 seconds. If you go and read upcoming patch notes, you can see how the AoE heal won't keep the shaman himself up anymore, so they can't use it so much then, becouse obv. they have to keep themselves up with the selfheal.

The gravity thing (jump thing) is just retarded... i dont care what the impact to the gameplay is - it is just retarded.
Have it replaced with a self buff with some cooldown - could be take 50% less damage from next 4 attacks. Spiritual Burden is fine. How is it retarded ? Becouse a shaman can kite with it ? Can get to a high ground where you have to figure a way to get into ? No mate, Spiritual Burden is fine.

The bubble shield - Remove this asap. Im not sure about the mechanics for this ability as i sometimes see it last like 5 seconds, and other times it barely lasts 2 seconds. Mby there is a counter to this im not sure of, but anyway... this spell does not belong in this game. "Im not sure about the mechanics for this ability" This is the most immature part of your post. Youre not sure how it works, but you still ask for its removal ? Why ? Of course this belongs to this game, why wouldn't it ?

Self heal (G) - very very situationel as your right now better off using all ur other spells. (read: bubble and AOE heal)
Make it heal ALOT like 30% but give it a 1 minute cooldown. 1 minute cooldown ? This isn't some crappy World of Warcraft where you play with your cooldowns. Forge does not have any long cooldowns, wich is awesome. And again, on the next patch, if you take your time and read the patchnotes, you could see that the AoE heal will no longer heal the shaman, and they have to use this.

Teambuff (V) - Remove the additional healing effect from this OR make the buff stay even though you decide to heal a target with (H) - currenlty (H) consumes the buff but gives additional healing.
I also suggest the buff lasts twice as long, but is restricted to 1 or 2 targets. (currently you can keep it up on 3 targets without healing 2 much.) This ability works exactly how it is supposed to. You don't like it ? Your problem.

M1 heal is a PAIN in the ass to use in crowded fights, and because its a "click and keep your aim on the target for 1.5 sec before spell goes off" it can completely fuck you over as you cant recover your mana if this happens for 3-4 attacks.
Make this spell charge up, and on release damage or heal whatever your (if anything) targetting. Of course it can fuck you over, if your aiming sucks. And by the way, you don't have to keep the crosshair on your target for that 1,5 seconds, just have the crosshair pointed on them when the ability is going to be released.

The share damage with a friend spell (F i think). Combined with a Warden this is getting retarded. If you wanna share damage and HP make all damage amplified with 20% (or whatever % fits).
Another option is to change this spell into: The shaman protects target allied until cancelled, and all damage to the target is redirected to the shaman.
Both suggestions solves the problem with the ability slowing down combat to a pace where people just cant die. This ability works fine aswell. Stun the shaman to interrupt it. L2p issue.

As it is now the Shaman is actually one of - if not the - most fun class to play even though its broke - so its not a "make shamans fun" rant.


Allright, gonna quote your post then. Correcting all your invalid points.. Now, check how wrong you were. Shamans op ? Read patch notes. Im an idiot ? Check your first post, you liked your own post, thats enough for me, to know who's the idiot here.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: balance, gameplay, healing, combat, fixes, aiming, UI, combat damage, targetting, XP

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