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Rating Coming Soon - Details Inside


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34 replies to this topic

#1
Sojourner

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Though it is unlikely to see its way into the release version, the first patch is very likely to include public stats and skill rating via Steam. This is a necessity as we move towards both keeping everyone happy through skill based matchmaking during "Random" queues, as well as providing a sound basis for competitive gaming.

Also note that this is in the earliest stages of testing and will very likely change a bit to ensure the quality of the skill rating going forward.

The first thing that was important was to ensure that each class had its own method for rating skill. It's unfair for instance to weigh damage done and damage taken against the Shaman in the same way it is for an Assassin. It's also unfair to detract any points from lack of healing done by the damage based classes.

Each class then has its own set of weights, though it follows a few general rules

1) Your time spent on the class matters. We look at your overall stats and break them down by time played down to a per second basis.
2) Kills and Assists are given equal weight against deaths
3) Damage Done, Healing Done and Protection Done are offset against Damage Taken. Weights are used here to acknowledge the reality that players are more likely to take more damage as a Shaman for instance than they are as a Pathfinder or Pyromancer.

It breaks down to this:

Your KADR, Kills+Assists to Death Ratio
Your DDDTR, Damage Done to Damage Taken Ratio (Damage Done side of the ratio uses Healing Done and Protection Done for respective classes and is weighted accordingly)
Your EFFOT, Efficiency Over Time, which is the Damage/Healing/Protection done divided by the seconds spent playing that class
Your DNGOT, Danger Over Time, which is the Damage taken divided by the seconds spent playing that class

These four values are used to calculate your skill rating. It is possible to have 0 as your skill rating if you die more than you assist or kill or take more damage than you damage/heal/protect. Numbers above 0 require you to increase your stats to gain positive ratios and efficiency numbers.

You also have an overall skill rating. It works such that if you spend 90% of your time on the Assassin, the Assassin makes up 90% of your overall skill rating. This allows you time to really learn a class before it has a significant effect on your overall rating and makes sure that a new class with a lucky starting game doesn't grossly distort the overall rating for a player one way or another.

In the end, raising your skill rating number is as simple as putting out more benefit to your team than the harm you take from your opponents. While weights help avoid penalizing players for aggressive play (The ratio is not 1:1 for damage done to damage taken for instance), you will want to learn how best to avoid taking damage while dishing out damage, heals or protection. Or, if you play with others that heal and protect, the three of you can overcome this efficiency issue through increasing your KADR.

We intend to show these numbers along with your win/loss % as part of your player information in game. Because skill based matchmaking tends to push people of equal skill together over time, high win %'s will become less and less common.

We prefer a system like this to begin with as it does not require fixed teams for the duration of a game. You can raise your rating to the very highest possible playing as a solo player or with friends as your convenience.

Looking forward to your thoughts!
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#2
Snoozey

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Interesting I am liking what I am hearing. Should be pretty fun playing with the new feature.
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#3
Yormaika

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Sounds good. +1
Cant wait to see how this progresses :)
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#4
rethink

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I assume this implies we will be getting our stats reset on launch then?

Because as yor said in the other thread, I've afked a while to let people test things. so if that messes with the match making would kinda suck :o

#5
Sojourner

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Stats will reset with the patch that brings them visible. Everyone will be starting from scratch as far as stats go.

#6
Storm

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We intend to show these numbers along with your win/loss % as part of your player information in game. Because skill based matchmaking tends to push people of equal skill together over time, high win %'s will become less and less common.


This worries me. Recently Tera implemented a tracking system like this, and some people leave before the game ends to keep their win percentage up or only participate in premades. In a game like Forge where the teams are not static, and are often switched by the player or the game, I don't think putting an emphasis on win percentage is a good idea, at least for where the game is right now. Perhaps you were intending to implement this for arena style, static-team match ups?
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#7
Hateyo

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This worries me. Recently Tera implemented a tracking system like this, and some people leave before the game ends to keep their win percentage up or only participate in premades. In a game like Forge where the teams are not static, and are often switched by the player or the game, I don't think putting an emphasis on win percentage is a good idea, at least for where the game is right now. Perhaps you were intending to implement this for arena style, static-team match ups?


I think the original plan was to have servers where you aren't recorded, to practice and such. That was a long time ago, though, and things could have changed.
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#8
Storm

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I think the original plan was to have servers where you aren't recorded, to practice and such. That was a long time ago, though, and things could have changed.


Are you talking about a tutorial zone, or regular player vs. player severs?
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#9
Dey

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Are you talking about a tutorial zone, or regular player vs. player severs?


I was under the impression that you aren't rated in normal Quick Play, but only in Arena Mode? Might have misunderstood that though...
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#10
Mystikkal

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This is great to hear Sojourner! Seems like a pretty good system. Balancing skill in PUGs is very important. A few questions:

Are you going to prevent a player with a high skill level from joining certain teams? e.g. a team with a higher skill level than the other

Are you going to rearrange teams in the middle of the match if skill levels are beyond a certain difference?

Are you going to incorporate other components into the calculation such as objectives (e.g. capturing a relic) or teamwork (e.g. blinding a warden that's on your shaman)?

The one thing we want to make sure we do is not provide incentives for people to play the game for their skill rating rather than the best of their team. For example, it may be better for your skill rating to abandon an ally who's outnumbered rather than help them. Or maybe someone tries to make sure they always get an assist, even though thats not the most optimal play for the team. One way to avoid this is to hide peoples ratings. You use the ratings (and class composition) to balance the teams.. but no one can see each others skill rating.

#11
CrimsonYeti

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Your KADR, Kills+Assists to Death Ratio
Your DDDTR, Damage Done to Damage Taken Ratio (Damage Done side of the ratio uses Healing Done and Protection Done for respective classes and is weighted accordingly)
Your EFFOT, Efficiency Over Time, which is the Damage/Healing/Protection done divided by the seconds spent playing that class
Your DNGOT, Danger Over Time, which is the Damage taken divided by the seconds spent playing that class

We intend to show these numbers along with your win/loss % as part of your player information in game.


Not sure how I feel about this. Displaying a skill rating and win/loss% is important but the rest seems like mostly epeen.

#12
rethink

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Surely this is highly biased towards shamans? Their KADR and EFFOT will be very high :o
I can normally go a full game without dying if my team sticks together around me, giving me 20k+ healing done and 0 deaths 40~ assists

I also think there will be an issue as this will discourage late night games with small player counts.

#13
Dollparts

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Oh well i was never a fan of Ratings and Stuff but sure why not :3 can only be interesting i guess :3

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#14
KingJackaL

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Surely this is highly biased towards shamans? Their KADR and EFFOT will be very high :o
I can normally go a full game without dying if my team sticks together around me, giving me 20k+ healing done and 0 deaths 40~ assists

I also think there will be an issue as this will discourage late night games with small player counts.


The specifics of the formula (weighting numbers etc) vary based on class role to take account of this ;).

#15
rethink

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Yay, I was getting so annoyed on assasin being top on damage, kills, least deaths and still being in the bottom half of our leader board, when being shaman and just pushing R gives you all the assists and healing score. But as long as it's fair for everyone, I am ok with this :)

#16
Storm

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I was under the impression that you aren't rated in normal Quick Play, but only in Arena Mode? Might have misunderstood that though...


That would be good. An official post confirming this would be even better.
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#17
Storm

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Yay, I was getting so annoyed on assasin being top on damage, kills, least deaths and still being in the bottom half of our leader board, when being shaman and just pushing R gives you all the assists and healing score. But as long as it's fair for everyone, I am ok with this :)


Think about all the people YOU annoy while playing assassin. Ganking, kill stealing, and vanishing. These should not be high on skill rating and contribution.
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#18
rethink

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Think about all the people YOU annoy while playing assassin. Ganking, kill stealing, and vanishing. These should not be high on skill rating and contribution.


I spend more of my time peeling and I never kill steal intentionally. Peeling off your healer is a valid way of contributing to a team, and thus should be, although I agree jumping into 2v1's should be less rewarding.

#19
Sojourner

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This isn't the ranking/rating we were discussing when talking about having it exclusive to a limited pool of servers. This is the more generic rating we wanted to provide in order for everyone to have something by which they can measure their progress while playing and to aid in matchmaking. Rating similar to an ELO system will be exclusive to particular servers and gameplay modes.

A lot of what we've learned from the scoring system has gone into where the rating system is at, but we are very very likely to change it up once we see it on live servers with normal gameplay. Skill rating will fluctuate while we find a sweet spot.

Just a quick note also: We will only show skill ratings and win % in game, the other efficiency calculations etc. are just backend calculations we do, they're not even currently intended to be visible stats to the player on their stats page.
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#20
Mystikkal

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when you say "aid in matchmaking" are you talking about automatic system generated matchmaking or user defined matchmaking? Sounds like user defined




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